Become a Podmaster Podcast Transcript S3E4

0:00
Jonathan Warncke
I think anyone can monetize a podcast, but not everyone will or not everyone has maybe the tools to do it in that they believe there’s only one tool, which is advertising, which I think, as Paolo said, is just not really a very sustainable way going forward for us. I believe that as long as you build something of an audience, obviously, unless your audience is 10 CEOs of FMCG companies, then you’re fine. But you’re going to need for most other things, something in the thousand plus numbers you’re going to. Then you can look at your options and say, maybe merch is the way, maybe live events is the way, maybe the podcast is advertising something else I’m doing. So if I’m dean from Trail Chasers, I’m starting my own trail run and I’m charging tickets for that.

00:49
Hendrik Baird
Welcome to season three of Become a Podmaster, where we tackle some of the biggest questions that podcasters have. I’m Hendrik.

00:57
Ethan Baird
And I’m Ethan. Not only did we get the questions from podcasters, but with the help of the South African Podcasters Guild, or SAPG for short, and Solid Gold Podcast and Audiobooks, we got some answers.

01:09
Hendrik Baird
In our previous episode, we talked about sponsorships, but of course, that’s just one way to monetize a podcast.

01:16
Ethan Baird
Many podcasters find that alternative revenue streams work better. Think about merch, premium content, live events, or Patreon.

01:24
Hendrik Baird
So today we’re looking at creative ways to generate income beyond traditional ads.

01:34
Ethan Baird
Our goal with this podcast is to help podcasters old and new navigate the evolving landscape of podcasting with expert insights and practical advice.

01:42
Hendrik Baird
And the question today is, how can podcasters monetize their content beyond traditional sponsorships? While ad revenue and sponsorships are the most talked about methods, they’re not the only ways to make money from a podcast. In fact, many successful podcasters rely on alternative revenue streams that are often more sustainable in the long run.

02:06
Ethan Baird
And we’ve seen this play out globally. Take the Lost podcast on the left. They built a thriving business not just through sponsorships, but also by selling exclusive merchandise, live event tickets, and premium content. Their audience isn’t just listening, they’re actively supporting the show.

02:23
Hendrik Baird
Another great example is Patreon. Shows like the Minimalists Podcast have built a community of dedicated listeners who pay monthly for bonus content, early access, and behind the scenes episodes. But is Patreon a viable income model for all podcasters?

02:40
Ethan Baird
That’s a big question. Patreon works best for podcasters with strong listener loyalty. Those who create content that people find valuable enough to pay for it’s not just about asking for donations, it’s about offering exclusive perks that make listeners feel like they’re part of something special.

02:56
Hendrik Baird
And then there’s merchandise selling branded T shirts, mugs, or even custom products related to your podcast theme. If your audience is engaged, then they’ll want to support you in ways beyond just listening.

03:10
Ethan Baird
We’ve seen podcasters turn their expertise into coaching, consulting and even paid speaking engagements. If you’ve built credibility through your podcast, brands and event organisers may see you as an authority in your space, and that can lead to high paying opportunities outside of podcasting itself.

03:28
Hendrik Baird
But of course, there are pitfalls to avoid. Some podcasters rush into monetization without tasting what the audience actually wants. Selling merch that no one buys, launching a Patreon without a strong value proposition or spreading efforts too thin can all lead to frustration and wasted resources.

03:50
Ethan Baird
So today we’re breaking down the most effective non sponsorship monetization strategies, sharing success stories and helping you decide which methods are right for your podcast.

04:00
Hendrik Baird
And as always, if you want even more insights, visit our website Bed Media for the resources you need to help grow your podcast.

04:11
Ethan Baird
Before we dive deeper, a quick shout out to our Podmaster Startup programme helping new podcasters launch with confidence. Check out our website Baird Media for more details.

04:22
Hendrik Baird
And we’re still on the topic of making money with a podcast. When I sat down with Gavin and Shannon of Solid Gold Podcasts and Audiobooks, I had this question for them. Let’s talk about other ways of making money. Merchandise, workshops, premium content, Patreon, all those sort of things. I mean, it would be no use starting a podcast, printing a thousand T shirts which then hang in your garage and you it. It’s also got something to do with later on, isn’t it?

04:53
Shannon Kennedy
Yeah, hard to answer, next question.

04:58
Gavin Kennedy
So if you I don’t know how old you have to be to remember when you couldn’t Skip ads on DStv, you watched DStv and you ran to the bathroom during ad breaks. And then the PVR came out, which meant you could, at the start of an episode of Friends, pause and do your stuff and then release pause, which gave you the ability to skip ads when you got to them because you had cached it. When you’re in a world where you can skip the ads. I’m not convinced you should build a business on selling ads that people can skip. It’s working right now because there isn’t really a viable alternative, but I unashamedly Skip the first 10 minutes of every Tim Ferriss podcast because there’s 10 minutes of ads that I just don’t want to listen to. Same with Lex Friedman.

05:50
Gavin Kennedy
There’s a whole bunch of them. That can’t be a viable business model. It can’t be. You can’t be building this business on selling ads to advertisers to reach an audience who is skipping all the ads. So it’s working right now because there isn’t an alternative. So what’s the alternative? And just follow me on a train of thought. Do you have Netflix?

06:13
Hendrik Baird
Sometimes.

06:14
Gavin Kennedy
How much do you pay for Netflix a month? What’s called it? 100 rand a month. What’s the value of the content you get access to? The minute your subscription is enabled and I throw out a number, they’re like $100 billion.

06:25
Hendrik Baird
Look, yeah, I mean if you go to a movie, it’s 150 rand or whatever at Ster-Kinekor. So I get 10,000 movies. So it’s just a huge amount of value.

06:33
Gavin Kennedy
So for 100 rand, you’re getting access to billions of rands worth of content. Okay, if you asking me to pay to listen to your podcast, how much are you asking me for? One rand. Five rand. Okay. At 100 rand, I get billions of rands with the content. So if I’m going to give you one rand for your podcast, I should get millions of rands of value. And I don’t think I am getting millions of rand. And it’s very hard to process a microtransaction for one rand. The cost of the transaction, the cost of the admin and all that stuff. So if you’re asking people to pay based on value equivalence, you’re dead in the water. Netflix, all of those just kill you completely. So asking people to subscribe, really hard. Asking people to donate when they feel like it, even harder to do so.

07:22
Gavin Kennedy
Alie Ward integrates her Patreon audience. There are some clever podcasts where if you’re a Patreon supporter, you get to ask questions that he answers. There’s a particular podcast I’m thinking of.

07:38
Shannon Kennedy
Ali does it in ologies.

07:40
Gavin Kennedy
Thank you to my donors who did this, this. So it’s a reward system, but it’s voluntary. You, you know, if she suddenly said you can’t listen unless you’re a subscriber, all the people who are listening now saying, oh, let me check out. Ologies don’t get to before committing to pay. And the model doesn’t work that way. You want them to try it and then Buy it. But asking people to listen free and then ramp up and give you some money. What I’m saying is we haven’t yet solved this problem. Podcasting hasn’t solved this problem. Some of your bigger podcasts are solving it by using YouTube. And essentially then they haven’t solved it. It’s not their audience. It’s really YouTube’s audience. And you’ve asked YouTube to help you collect the revenue. So you’re not really in control of that audience. It’s not your audience.

08:22
Gavin Kennedy
You might think it is, but it’s not. They can take that audience away from you.

08:27
Hendrik Baird
Same thing we talked about earlier about social media is not your platform.

08:30
Gavin Kennedy
It’s not your platform. It’s not your. It’s not your audience.

08:32
Hendrik Baird
Twitter’s going to. And, yeah. Gone as your 5 million followers there.

08:37
Gavin Kennedy
Yeah, yeah. I mean, we saw that with Trump when he was, you know, he was a sitting president when Twitter banned him and he lost access to 55 million people. They weren’t his 55 million people. They were Twitter’s 55 million people. So you need to be building a.

08:51
Hendrik Baird
Mailing list and a website for your podcast. I mean, you need to have your own property somewhere.

08:56
Gavin Kennedy
Yes. So that you can communicate with your. So you can throw merch into it. But you need to be a mature product before people are going to pay to wear your brand.

09:05
Hendrik Baird
And then it’s all the admin of, you know, collecting orders and packaging and sending it off.

09:10
Gavin Kennedy
And then. And then how’s your time being spent? How much of it’s been spent on making the content and how much has it been posting shirts? Patreon has been working on enabling RSS feeds that are tied to a login. So you can go. If you’re a subscriber, you get an RSS feed that’s unique to you, which means you can listen when you’re logged in to Patreon. And you can’t share that RSS feed with somebody else. They’re unable to listen to it because RSS feed is, by definition open. Here’s my RSS feed. I can give it to anybody. So being able to make it log in, pay, verify, and then enable people to listen to content, that’s an incredibly complex service to offer. So you need numbers, you need some. And Patreon aren’t going to do that for.

09:53
Gavin Kennedy
For fun or, you know, they want to generate revenue out of all the work they’re doing. But how do you get people to subscribe when they haven’t heard your content? Okay, so I’M going to add value to my. I think I’m getting enough value from your free. How much more value you’re going to give. We’ve cut out the ads. It’s okay, I can skip the ads. So you really got to have a high value proposition if you want me to give you money on a microtransaction or a subscription or a pure donate. I know it sounds all negative, but it’s hard.

10:25
Hendrik Baird
I think this is a general thing. It’s hard to make a success of a podcast. It’s not just, oh, I’ve got a guest, I’ve got a microphone, I’ve got a bedroom, I want to be a millionaire and famous.

10:35
Gavin Kennedy
It’s important to realise that it’s hard to build any business. I’ve got this idea. Let’s make cakes. Yay. I’m going to charge less than the other people down the road. Did you factor in the electricity? Did you factor in your labour delivery? It’s hard to build any business in a business that doesn’t yet have clear monetization models or rails to plug into. Makes it even harder.

11:00
Hendrik Baird
The gents at SAPG also talked about Patreon.

11:03
Jonathan Warncke
I think anyone can monetize a podcast, but not everyone will or not everyone has no that maybe the tools to do it in that they believe there’s only one tool which is advertising, which I think, as Paola said, is just not really a very sustainable way going forward for us. I believe that as long as you build something of an audience, obviously, unless your audience is 10 CEOs of FMCG companies, then you’re fine. But you’re going to need for most other things something in the thousand plus numbers you’re going to. Then you can look at your options and say maybe merch is the way, maybe live events is the way. Maybe the podcast is advertising something else I’m doing.

11:46
Jonathan Warncke
So if I’m dean from Trail Chasers, I’m starting my own trail run and I’m charging tickets for that and the show is just the ad for the trail run. So I think you just have to look outside the scope of. Of selling ads because no one likes ads. I was listening to a show on Spotify, the show had baked in ads and I’m paying for Spotify, which is insane. So like why am I paying for an app? And then I listen to ads anyway? So I think there’s going to be. There’s a lot of enmity for me certainly, and I’m sure from other people too.

12:16
Paulo Dias
All I say to A podcaster that asks that I say, like, firstly, if that’s your only reason for doing it, I think you’re. You’re doing it for the wrong reason. If that’s a benefit down the line, you know, that’s great. I think people who are selling a skill outside of, like you say, if your podcast is your ad for something else I do for a service I have, for a business I have for an expertise, that’s great because then your podcast is your ad, your podcast is your business card. And I think for more and more people should think of it that way. The other thing is your podcast could be a great way for you to access things. You know, we’ve. We’ve got a member in the SAPG celebs event. He goes to every single concert and event in this Joburg for free.

12:59
Paulo Dias
He got another great sponsorship deal as well. If you look at his Instagram, you’ll see. I don’t want to say it on here, but celeb savants on Instagram, go look. He got like another crazy sponsorship anyway, but go look at that for yourself. But if you have to take into the price of VIP tickets and what he gets weekly, he’s getting thousands of rands and comps because he loves it and he loves going to events. So that’s great for him because he’s deriving some benefit out of it and he’s getting that authority that he must be the guy. So that’s great. It positions them in a certain way. Use it to sell an event, that’s an even better way.

13:34
Paulo Dias
And once you get into this thing, I don’t think we’re going to get into scale on promo codes, on discount codes, on Manscape and all that stuff. I really cannot see somebody plonking a lot of money into podcasts in South Africa. Say, go do this. We just won’t get that scale. But if you’re going to have the conversation with a sponsor, be careful what you ask for, because it might be nice in the beginning, they will want something in the end, and you’re going to compromise yourself. So just be sure if you’re going to go into that space that you’re ready because you’re selling yourself now. And that literally does come at a price. So just be ready. You’re going to do that and maybe prepare a vehicle that allows you to do it in a way that keeps yourself. Your content, your content.

14:20
Paulo Dias
I think it goes to the thing. You use the book analogy, and it’s the first time I’m putting this out in the wild, you don’t read a book, and at the end of chapter two, there’s a double page spread. Right? It’s not that sort of medium. Okay? People get upset if there’s a double page spread in the middle of the book. It’s not that medium, but you can go on a book tour. You can do something else. So I think I like the book analogy for that reason.

14:45
Jonathan Warncke
I think the danger is looking to the more developed markets like America and going, hey, let’s do that. America is hyper capitalist. They will put an ad on anything. Right. So we don’t necessarily have to go down that road when it comes to can amateurs monetize their shows? I think they can ask for feedback from other guild members, from some of the more senior people about the sellability of their show, and we’ll try and be honest about it. But I will say that if you run a good show, if you can produce a good show, then you might even have a better opportunity to look around at who you know, who’s in your network, what brands, you know, make a show for them. Everyone can create a branded show if their part of it is production and understanding. Podcasting.

15:26
Jonathan Warncke
I mean, I make branded podcasts and I don’t want a thousand competitors, but I do sometimes feel like trying to shoehorn a show that is maybe not fiscally viable is harder than just going, okay, well, what is fiscally viable? And who do I know that I can make a show for? And, you know, that is an alternative.

15:43
Hendrik Baird
That is indeed my next question. I mean, we’re talking about podcasters building up their own shows and then trying to make money off. It’s. But there is the other side of the coin, which people like ourselves, we look for clients who want to produce podcasts, but don’t want to go into the whole thing and just want to throw a lot of money at me going, please do it for me and get me an end result. Do you think existing podcasters who’ve had some measure of success should consider that kind of approach, or should they just stick with what they know?

16:10
Paulo Dias
So you’re saying making podcasts for other people and brands based on what you know. Yeah, like, you know, certainly from my experience, like, my podcast has nothing to do with the work that I do. I mean, that 80 show, but when I put up there that, oh, well, you know, the show’s been running for years. It was one of the first podcasts that ran on prime media. It was on Cliff Central for years, which was kind of like, you know, the Mark of success. He goes, oh, well, if you do that, you’ve been running for so long, you obviously know what you’re talking about. So I’d rather give the work to you than somebody else. And I think, you know, think of it that way.

16:45
Paulo Dias
There’s going to come different measures because, you know, the thing is, from my experience on most hobby podcasters, they spend a hell of a lot of time on their podcast and they have a hell of a lot of insecurities and they make their own decisions and suddenly you’re doing it for somebody else. And your time is not your time, it’s their time. You’re working on their deadline, you’re working within their parameters. So, for example, I know a lot of people want to record in a certain way in a studio. This way your clients are doing it and they’re recording on their phone and they’re doing it this way. And suddenly your, the quality of what you can do gets compromised and there’s frustration and they get frustrated with you. So I think it’s tricky. And then I find that is highly commoditized.

17:29
Paulo Dias
I see rates of people offering video podcasts, fully shot produced, three camera for dish. How do you even, how do you pay rent? Like you are just doing it to undercut people. So I think it’s just becoming a space where people are just, they’ve got this equipment, they need to use it because a partner is shouting at them, because you spend so much money on camera equipment and they go, well, let me make it for somebody else. But all the things that you enjoy about your own podcast, you’re now going to hate making it for somebody else. And guaranteed, because I have that experience.

18:00
Ethan Baird
This episode of Become a Podmaster is brought to you by Baird Media in association with the South African Podcasters Guild, a community built by podcasters for podcasting.

18:10
Hendrik Baird
Whether you’re just starting out or a seasoned creator, the SAPG connects you with industry experts, exclusive resources and a network of like minded podcasters who are passionate about growing the medium in South Africa.

18:24
Ethan Baird
Get insider tips, collaborative opportunities and access to discounted studio time. Plus, be part of shaping the future of podcasting in South Africa.

18:32
Hendrik Baird
Join the South African Podcasters Guild today at SAPG Co Za and take your podcasting journey to the next level. So what did we learn today, Ethan?

18:45
Ethan Baird
We learned that monetization isn’t just about sponsorships. There are plenty of creative ways to generate revenue from a podcast merchandise. Premium content, coaching and live events are just a few of the many options podcasters can explore.

18:58
Hendrik Baird
Patreon and other subscription models work well for podcasters who offer consistent, high value, exclusive content, but they require strong listener loyalty to succeed.

19:10
Ethan Baird
And it’s not just about direct monetization. Podcasting can be a business card. It can help you land speaking gigs, consulting work, or even brand collaborations that go beyond ad placements.

19:21
Hendrik Baird
But the key takeaway is that you need to understand your audience. Selling merch no one buys launching a Patreon without a compelling reason, or spreading yourself too thin can waste time and resources.

19:34
Ethan Baird
The most successful podcasters find a monetization method that fits their content audience and strengths, and they adapt as they grow.

19:42
Hendrik Baird
And if you want more guidance on monetization, my book the Podmaster’s Voice is packed with insights to help you level up your podcast, and it’s available on our website Bed media and on takealot.com.

19:58
Ethan Baird
Do you want to take your podcast to the next level? Join our upcoming masterclass. The details are on our website Baird Media.

20:06
Hendrik Baird
And that’s it for this episode. If you found it valuable, don’t forget to share and Tag us on LinkedIn.

20:13
Ethan Baird
In our next episode.

20:15
Shannon Kennedy
Audio quality is fairly important, I suppose, in a podcast, especially if you’re a purist and there’s no video to because in video podcasting situations a lot of the time you can kind of get away with your content, especially your audio not being as good because you’re relying on the video and the audios to kind of COVID your bases a little bit. But maybe. Maybe I’ve been in the industry for too long, but it is not hard to produce good audio. It’s really easy. Find a good quiet room that doesn’t sound hollow and empty, couple of cushions, carpets and curtains hanging in it. Nicole is a perfect example of still potentially using her cardboard box, and you don’t need a huge fancy setup to create good quality audio.