Become a Podmaster Podcast Transcript S3E1

00:00
Jonathan Warncke
I believe that for ex radio people, podcasts are very akin to radio for the listener. I think that podcasts are much more of a digital media than a radio aligned media. The similarities between podcasting and general digital content are far stronger than live always interview based in general like radio shows because we don’t really hear radio plays that often anymore and the kind of stuff that people are still experimenting with in podcasts. So I think it is a little bit of a trap you can fall into going especially for the SAPG thinking that podcasts are like digital radio because then you fall into the traps of CPMs and all the problems that radio has that we don’t necessarily have to just inherit.

00:43
Hendrik Baird
This is season three of the Become a Podmaster podcast. We are going to answer some of the most pressing questions that podcasters have. I’m Hendrik.

00:53
Ethan Baird
And I’m Ethan. Not only did we get the questions from podcasters, but with the help of the South African Podcasters Guild, or SAPG for short, as well as solid gold podcasts and audiobooks, we got some answers.

01:04
Hendrik Baird
Today we go back to basics. To get the conversation going, we’re going to attempt to answer the question, what is a podcast?

01:13
Ethan Baird
So to be honest, we’re purists in the sense that we believe a podcast is an audio medium, but we’re with so many YouTube videos calling themselves podcasts, we think it’s important to redefine what a podcast has become over the past few years. Our goal with this podcast is to help podcasters old and new navigate the evolving landscape of podcasting with expert insights as well as practical advice.

01:37
Hendrik Baird
And our question today is what is a podcast really? The definition has shifted over time, and in this episode we’ll explore how industry professionals see it.

01:47
Ethan Baird
As podcasting grows beyond its traditional audio routes, many creators and audiences have different expectations of what qualifies as a podcast.

01:54
Hendrik Baird
Understanding these definitions will help you position yourself effectively, whether you are audio first, video first, or a multi platform creator.

02:04
Ethan Baird
We’re going to look at the traditional definition of a podcast. It started as audio content delivered via an RSS feed. Does this definition still hold?

02:13
Hendrik Baird
Over the past two decades, especially recently, the lines have kind of blurred. We have to acknowledge how video, YouTube and platform agnostic distribution are changing the space.

02:24
Ethan Baird
In many respects, podcasting has become a signal of independence. We’ll examine why some creators use the word podcast as a badge of independent content rather than a technical definition.

02:34
Hendrik Baird
And then there is the radio versus podcast debate. Is podcasting just radio on demand? Or is it something fundamentally different and.

02:43
Ethan Baird
What about the practical implications for podcasters? We’ll ask how understanding these definitions can help with audience targeting, monetization and content strategy.

02:52
Hendrik Baird
So many questions, so little time. So let’s just get into it.

02:55
Ethan Baird
And remember to visit our website, Baird Media, for more insights. So I think the best place to start is to look back at a brief history of podcasting to see where it came from and how we got here.

03:09
Hendrik Baird
I remember when we first saw personal computers. My brother Jacques had one, but the only thing I could do on it was play that very early version of tennis with a little block bouncing from one side of the screen to the other and you trying to bounce it back using a little line on either side of the screen.

03:26
Ethan Baird
Yeah. While you were busy trying to figure out how to play Pong, people in the 1990s were already sharing audio content over the Internet, primarily through downloadable MP3s and streaming radio. Technologies such as Real Audio and Shoutcast allowed users to listen to on demand content. But there was no structured way to distribute episodic shows.

03:46
Hendrik Baird
It was in the year 2000 that software developer David Weiner introduced enclosures in RSS feeds which allowed audio files to be syndicated, a crucial innovation for podcasting.

03:59
Ethan Baird
Then in 2004, journalist Ben Hammersley coined the term podcasting, combining ipod and broadcasting, though the medium was never exclusive to Apple devices.

04:10
Hendrik Baird
I remember I had an ipod, but I used it mainly to load music on. And while I was aware of podcasts, I really didn’t listen to many of them or even any of them, I must be honest, even though I could access them on my then state of the art apple Mac.

04:26
Ethan Baird
It was the tech entrepreneurs Adam Curry and Dave Weiner who built one of the first podcasting applications, making it easier to automatically download and listen to shows.

04:35
Hendrik Baird
The people who first adopted this technology included bloggers, tech enthusiasts and radio professionals who experimented with the format.

04:44
Ethan Baird
Podcasts really grew between 2005 and 2013 when Apple added podcasts to itunes, bringing mainstream awareness to the format. Between 2006 and 2010, radio stations and media companies repurposed content into podcasts, while independent creators experimented with new storytelling formats. Then in 2012, Spotify and other streaming platforms began integrating podcasts, expanding accessibility beyond itunes.

05:09
Hendrik Baird
There was a podcast boom between 2014 and 2020. It started with the release of Serial, an investigative journalism podcast where which became a cultural phenomena in the US showcasing the power of long form storytelling in the medium. This in turn made advertisers take notice with dynamic ad insertion, allowing podcasters to monetize their content.

05:33
Ethan Baird
Once Spotify and Google entered the podcast space, it became much easier to reach wider audiences. Soon, celebrities and brands launched their own podcasts, further mainstreaming the format.

05:44
Hendrik Baird
And then came Covid and the world shut down for a while. This ushered in a new era of podcasting, as podcast consumption accelerated, as audiences sought something to listen to while in isolation.

06:00
Ethan Baird
And this is when creators increasingly turned to YouTube. With video first podcasts gaining traction, there.

06:05
Hendrik Baird
Was a flurry of corporate takeovers, with Spotify acquiring anchor Gimlet Media and the Ringer pushing for platform exclusive shows.

06:14
Ethan Baird
It was during this time that monetization and subscriptions came to the fore. Apple, Spotify and Patreon introduced paid subscriptions, premium content as well as ad networks for podcasters.

06:24
Hendrik Baird
And these days, the latest change involves AI and emerging technologies. And who knows where that will all take us because it’s providing new tools for automated editing, transcription, and even synthetic voices, which are shaping the podcasts of the future. According to the Merriam Webster Dictionary, a podcast is a programme as of music or talk made available in digital format for automatic download over the Internet. What does the Oxford English Dictionary say?

06:59
Ethan Baird
A digital audio file made available on the Internet for downloading to a computer or mobile device, typically available as a series, new instalments of which can be received by subscribers automatically.

07:12
Hendrik Baird
Okay, let me see what the international podcast standards via RSS 2.0 and industry bodies say. A podcast is a series of spoken word digital audio files that a user can download or stream to listen to. Episodes are typically made available via an RSS feed, allowing users to subscribe and receive new content automatically.

07:34
Ethan Baird
This all sounds very academic. You spoke to Gavin and Shannon Kennedy at Solid Gold Podcasts and Audiobooks. How did they define a podcast?

07:42
Shannon Kennedy
A podcast, to me, I suppose I am sort of a bit of a purist still. While I engage with video content, a podcast to me is very much a story being told through the audio medium hosted on an RSS feed. So it’s kind of a mix of a very technical and personal definition, I suppose.

Hendrik Baird

And Gavin, video podcasts, YouTube channels, does that qualify as a podcast?

08:08
Gavin Kennedy
Podcast have been around for 20 odd years now, from the first time an RSS feed was repurposed to include audio. And at the time, the definition of a podcast was audio content delivered via an RSS feed to a device on the Internet that’s downloaded and listened to. So that’s the technical definition. It hasn’t really been updated. But what’s happened is the word podcast has become signal. Now, the word podcast means something other than Its technical term and what we’re finding that it means mostly for people is that it means I made this. So it’s signal that says this wasn’t made by mainstream media, this wasn’t made by cnn, this wasn’t made by sabc, this was made independently by me and you can trust it.

08:53
Gavin Kennedy
So whether it’s audio or video or one camera or multi camera or remote, that’s no longer the defining criteria. It’s I made this. So South Africa’s biggest podcast arguably is MacG’s podcast and chill. It’s not a podcast, it’s a straightforward television show. Why does he use the word podcast? Well, he left working for big radio stations, went on his own and wants his audience to know that and follow him as opposed to a company. So podcast, all signal, with or without a picture, with or without audio.

09:26
Hendrik Baird
When you say the word podcast in South Africa, people think video interview.

09:31
Gavin Kennedy
Yeah. So 100 years ago, all cars looked like horse drawn buggies with a horse missing. That’s because an engine was invented and we slapped it onto this thing and we moved around. So for a while things looked like what they grew out of. And podcasts definitely grew out of the skill set of people working in radio. So the early podcasts were definitely dominated by people who worked in radio in the us, took their blogs and their hobby and made them into podcasts. So their skills were radio production. Podcasts sounded like radio production and the easy wins for making content was always two people having a conversation as opposed to behind the scenes production and scripting and the this American Life high production value stuff.

10:15
Ethan Baird
Before we move on, I’d just like to highlight our podmaster startup programme which helps new podcasters launch with confidence. Check out our website, Baird Media for more information.

10:25
Hendrik Baird
So we’re still on the topic of what exactly is a podcast and how it is defined in this post Covid era. I also asked Paolo and Jonathan of the SAPG how they define it.

10:38
Paulo Dias

It’s changed. It used to be this thing that you played on an iPod that no one could do, but now I think the lines are so blurred that I think it’s becoming less platform specific. So a podcast can exist across multiple channels. I think we want to be purist about it and kind of go, well, if it doesn’t have an RSS feed, you know, is it a podcast? But I ultimately think it comes down to what is the person experiencing on the other side. So I think it kind of, for me it’s an audio first on demand piece of content that a person seeks out for entertainment and information.

11:13
Jonathan Warncke
My position has become more and more flexible as I’ve judged things and had people join the guild who only have a YouTube channel or you know, maybe their social media channels are more the focus than their main channels. So I think Paolo’s got it right. But I have a feeling that we’re going to get to a point where it’s. I identify as a podcaster.

11:34
Hendrik Baird
The follow up question is then, is a YouTube channel without an RSS feed with no audio component, just like a taped interview, is that still a podcast?

11:44
Paulo Dias
I am going to say no. I think you’re a YouTuber in a podcast studio because you are playing a different game. So if you produce your podcast and yes, it’s YouTube, but you got elements elsewhere, I think. Yes, but I think if you’re just on YouTube, that’s the game you’re playing. You’re a YouTuber and by all means that’s fine, produce podcast style content. But I think you are then nailing your colours to one platform and that’s cool. But then you’re just a YouTuber in a podcast studio.

12:13
Jonathan Warncke
Yeah, I kind of agree with that. I mean, I think what it says implicitly, if you say I’m a podcaster but I’m only on YouTube, you’re defining all podcasts as interview shows, essentially. Whereas podcasts, audio only, are audio fiction and monologues and all kinds of things, you know. So I think that is almost putting podcasts in a box which they shouldn’t be in.

12:35
Paulo Dias
I think that’s a great point because I think, you know, the interview style thing is the easiest way to get into the lowest barrier to entry. But I think that those sort of shows are, there’s a lot of them and I think they’re going to find it harder and harder to cut through. So I think those who are bringing in better content structure, better content types, playing around with audio or the visual or integrating more and making more of an experience are going to start really breaking through. And for you to do an interview type show, you’re really going to have to be that 1% to stand out and survive.

13:09
Hendrik Baird
If we say streaming services, you know, video streaming comes from television and from the movies, then surely podcasting comes from radio. It’s radio on demand, isn’t it?

13:20
Paulo Dias
That’s kind of the genesis of it. And I’m always going to lean that side because that’s my background and I love radio and I’m an audiophile and I love things you do with sound and I love the power that a human voice can have and the power that a pause can have, that visual just can’t create. I think the best podcasters worldwide are those who have some background in radio first, that they understand how to do a lot without very little. They’re not hiding behind glass. So they’re able to take people somewhere with words primarily and then once you start adding in the rest, that makes them very powerful and compelling. So yes, I think the genesis will be radio first and I think the best podcasters are coming from that background or that school.

14:05
Jonathan Warncke
So here’s where I might have a slightly different opinion in that I believe that for ex radio people, podcasts are very akin to radio for the listener. I think that podcasts are much more of a digital media than a radio aligned media. Like the similarities between podcasting and general digital content are far stronger than live always interview based in general, like radio shows, because we don’t really hear radio plays that often anymore and the kind of stuff that people are still experimenting with in podcasts. So I think it is a little bit of a trap you can fall into going especially for the SAPG thinking that podcasts are like digital radio, because then you fall into the traps of CPMs and all the problems that radio has that we don’t necessarily have to just inherit.

14:51
Hendrik Baird
So here’s then a question. If a radio station takes their breakfast show and puts it up as a podcast, is that a podcast?

14:59
Jonathan Warncke
I ask the hard questions here.

15:01
Paulo Dias
Well, I’ve got the answer because I used to be very militant about this and I said that’s rubbish. Because radio stations would come to me and that’s my day to day business and they’d come to me and say, oh, we got podcasts and we got a million podcast downloads a month. No you don’t. You just got people listening to the traffic report, you just got people listening to the news report an hour later. That’s not a podcast. And I was like, you’re creating a false perception because you’re chasing numbers. Because those things get big numbers. They always have. That’s where I started what I used to call podcasting. That’s what my first role in podcasting was to take that content and put it online.

15:37
Paulo Dias
But again, I go back to what does it mean for the listener if that content is the gateway for a listener, if that’s the first time they go online and seek out a piece of audio content on demand, which then leads them into, hey, this wasn’t scary or intimidating or daunting or Something I couldn’t understand, let me go find other things, then I think that’s fine. So if the end goal works for the listener and it makes them more comfortable with the medium and radio stations and radio listeners, what I’ve always seen in my career is that radio is a great way to get people to mass adopt something. So a lot of times people follow a business, it’s more likely to be a radio station. A lot of times they downloaded an app, it’s a radio station app.

16:23
Paulo Dias
And we’re not talking about us, we’re all early adopters. And anybody listening to this are probably on the edge of anything new. We’re talking about that morose of people who don’t get it right. You call it WhatsApp. So for them to be able to get into a space where they’re adopting new technologies and they trust the radio station to do it, I don’t think it’s a bad thing. And I came from a space where I thought, it’s nonsense, it’s rubbish, don’t do it to now going, hold on a second. If it enables more people into our space, it’s not the worst thing in the world.

16:52
Ethan Baird
This episode of Become a Podmaster is brought to you by Baird Media in association with the South African Podcasters Guild, a community built by podcasters for podcasters.

17:02
Hendrik Baird
Whether you’re just starting out or a seasoned creator, the SAPG connects you with industry experts, exclusive resources and a network of like-minded podcasters who are passionate about growing the medium in South Africa.

17:16
Ethan Baird
Get insider tips, collaborative opportunities and access to discounted studio time. Plus, be part of shaping the future of podcasting in South Africa.

17:24
Hendrik Baird
Join the South African Podcasters Guild today at SAPG.co.za and take your podcasting journey to the next level.

17:33
Ethan Baird
Level. I really love those insights from our guests. If you’d like to discuss this further, connect with us on LinkedIn and let’s continue the conversation there. The links are in the show notes.

17:46
Hendrik Baird
So what did we learn today, Ethan?

17:48
Ethan Baird
I think we have a more comprehensive definition of what a podcast is.

17:52
Hendrik Baird
So do you want to attempt that new definition?

17:55
Ethan Baird
Sure. A podcast is a digital on demand audio or video series traditionally distributed via an RSS feed for streaming or download. It has evolved beyond its technical roots and is now widely recognised as an independent, creator driven medium that provides storytelling, education, entertainment and conversation across multiple platforms.

18:16
Hendrik Baird
So what you’re saying is that the term podcast now extends beyond RSS based distribution to include video first content, YouTube shows and even direct uploads to streaming platforms? This all just blurs the lines between traditional and digital media.

18:33
Ethan Baird
Many creators use the word podcast as a signal of independent content creation, distinguishing it from mainstream media productions. This self-identification is becoming more important than the distribution method.

18:45
Hendrik Baird
In other words, what you’re saying is podcasting is shifting from being platform specific such as iPod to RSS feeds, to existing across multiple channels such as YouTube, Spotify and Apple Podcasts and listeners engage with podcasts based on experience rather than format.

19:02
Ethan Baird
And while podcasting originated from radio skill sets and production techniques, it has since evolved into a broader form of digital media, often resembling social media or streaming services rather than live radio.

19:13
Hendrik Baird
This then means that a podcast is ultimately defined not just by its distribution method, but how an audience engages with it. While its roots are in audio and RSS, its future includes video, community interaction and multi-platform reach. What matters most at the end of the day is the listener’s experience and the creator’s intent.

19:37
Ethan Baird
I think you’ve hit the nail on the head, although I do still kind of think a podcast should be audio. But we also have to evolve. Would you like to take your podcast to the next level? You can join our upcoming masterclass. The details are on our website. Baird Media.

19:53
Ethan Baird
And you spell that like air.

Baird.
So B A I R D Media.

19:59
Hendrik Baird
I actually practised this at home. Bravo Alpha India, Romeo Delta Media.

20:06
Ethan Baird
That’s it for this episode. If you found this valuable, don’t forget to share and Tag us on LinkedIn.

20:10
Hendrik Baird
And in our next episode.

20:12
Jonathan Warncke
Okay, well, talk about niche. Let’s start with niche. Yes, I think niching is very powerful and very important in our, let’s say economy, demography in our country as well. We just don’t have the kind of population numbers to support a national show. If you go international, if you can crack the international market, great. But if you want to do a national show about kite flying, you’re going to have 10 people on that show. You’re going to have 10 listeners. Right? If you’re making a show about a major sport like rugby or soccer, cool. You can access a much larger market. But you’re going to be competing with SuperSport with some very excellent content creators, as I would say.