A few nights ago, over coffee on my friend Thomas Budge’s farm in Centurion, we got into a bit of an argument.
It wasn’t hostile — our chats never are — but it was passionate.
The way they tend to be when two people who’ve both worked in radio and podcasting have a difference of opinion.
Thomas, who splits his time between South Africa and Switzerland, was home for a few months.
We’d had dinner, and afterward I played him a rough edit of an episode of Become a Podmaster.
When it ended, I said, “You know, I really believe a podcast has to be entertaining first and foremost.”
Thomas frowned. “I’m not so sure,” he said. “What about educational podcasts? Or spiritual ones? They’re not meant to entertain.”
He has a point.
His own show, Soul Searching, was originally a reflective, soul-focused program on GaySA Radio back when I was managing the station.
He’s since converted it into a podcast, and it’s very much a gentle, thoughtful space — more meditative than performative.
I could see why the word “entertainment” felt like the wrong fit to him.
So he challenged me: “What exactly do you mean by entertainment?”
And that’s where our conversation got interesting.
People often think of entertainment as something superficial.
Comedy.
Drama.
Flashy intros.
Gimmicks.
But when I say a podcast should be entertaining, I don’t mean it needs to be funny or fast-paced or filled with sound effects.
I mean it needs to be engaging.
It needs to hold attention.
It needs to keep people listening.
Whether you’re telling a story, sharing a spiritual insight, teaching something technical, or interviewing an expert, your job as a podcaster is to make people want to stick around.
To make them lean in.
And that requires something — tone, rhythm, emotional resonance, tension, story — that keeps the mind from wandering.
That’s what I mean by “entertainment.”
And whether we admit it or not, every good podcast has it.
I’ve worked in theatre, radio, and media long enough to know this instinctively.
When you act on stage, you can feel it in the room — when the audience is with you, and when they’ve checked out.
It’s the same in a podcast.
Just because you can’t see your listeners doesn’t mean they’re not drifting.
One moment of monotony, one too-long tangent, one flat delivery — and they’re gone.
That’s not a failure of content.
It’s a failure of delivery.
When I write or edit podcast content — whether for clients or for my own shows — I always ask, “Is this compelling?”
Not “Is this informative?” or “Is this correct?” but “Will someone want to hear this all the way through?”
Because value without attention is wasted.
And attention is what entertainment delivers.
This was the core of my argument with Thomas.
Yes, there are podcasts that are slow, quiet, and contemplative.
Yes, there are academic shows packed with knowledge.
But the ones that work — the ones that actually find an audience and keep them — still entertain in their own way.
They use story.
They use pace.
They use the power of voice.
Take Hardcore History, which is essentially hours of one man recounting ancient wars.
It’s long.
It’s serious.
But Dan Carlin delivers it with the rhythm of a master storyteller.
Or The Daily, which delivers the news with narrative framing and human texture.
Or even Soul Searching, when Thomas weaves his own reflections with carefully chosen music and sincere delivery.
He’s not trying to perform, but his voice still invites you in.
That’s entertainment — not in the circus sense, but in the purest form: a reason to keep listening.
I told Thomas — and I’ll say it here — that I’ve heard far too many well-meaning podcasts fail simply because they didn’t think they needed to be entertaining.
They assumed the information alone was enough.
Or that sincerity would carry the day. Or that their topic was so important people would just listen.
They don’t. They won’t.
Listeners are not obliged to stay with you.
They have millions of choices, many of them more polished, more dynamic, and more engaging.
If your podcast doesn’t offer some reason to stay, even the most important message will vanish into the void.
I eventually won Thomas over — not with force, but with clarity.
He understood that what I was talking about wasn’t style but intent.
A commitment to not just speak, but to connect.
A podcast can be slow, serious, or niche — but it still has to give the listener something to respond to.
That something is what I’ve spent my career chasing: resonance.
Emotional, intellectual, even spiritual.
That’s what makes something entertaining.
That’s what makes it work.
So yes, a podcast can be serious.
It can be educational.
It can be introspective or academic or even a little dry.
But if it wants to be heard, remembered, and shared — it has to be entertaining, too.
Not loud or silly, but engaging.
Intentional.
Alive.
That night on the farm, as the coffee cooled and the stars came out, we both sat quietly for a moment.
Then Thomas smiled and said, “Alright. You win. But I’m still calling it ‘edutainment.’”
Fair enough, I said.
And poured him another cup.
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