TRANSCRIPT Become a Podmaster S2E6 – Podcasting Pro Hacks: Master Preparation, Production, Promotion!

[00:00:00] Hendrik Baird: So, Ethan, a friend of mine started a band and, uh, they released their first song. It was called Duvet. And then they wrote a second song and they released it as an, as an EP. It was called Eiderdown. And then they recorded their third song. It was called Blanket. Apparently, they’re a cover band.

Today we’re talking about the podcast workflow process. This is very important. It’s not just, Oh, I’m going to do a podcast. Who can I interview? I’ve interviewed them. I’m done. Yeah, there’s so much more that you need to consider, isn’t it? 

[00:00:36] Ethan Baird: Yeah, and I think this is why a lot of people fail. No planning and no consistency.

A podcast is a long term commitment, and if you don’t have a regular process, a regular strategy to get that episode recorded, by the time you get to your fifth, sixth episode, it’s really just going to become a nightmare instead of this fun art project that has started. 

[00:00:54] Hendrik Baird: You are part of the entertainment industry if you start a podcast, isn’t it?

So you are there to entertain people. And, uh, you know, it’s like producing a Netflix series. You can’t just go in like, Oh, I’ve got two actors. I’m going to show, say, I’m going, you need a script. You need a crew. You need music. You need so many different things. You need, you know, a regular workflow and it also depends then, you know, your workflow depends on how you produce it.

Is it a weekly? Is it a bi weekly? Is it a once a month? Is it a limited season? So there are very many ways to do it. 

” Which way to do it ultimately depends on your situation and the amount of time that you have available. Uh, we’ve got a production process. It’s described pretty in depth in the book, Become a Podmaster: Everything You Need to Know to Master the Art of Podcasting. But today we’re going to be looking at various people’s workflows, how they research their shows, and how they prepare for each individual episode. Some people come in with some vague bullet points. Some people come in with a full script. Some people are doing a huge amount of production. Some people are doing a small amount of production. So it all really depends on the kind of show you’re producing. 

[00:01:58] Walter Gainer II: My name is Walter Gainer the second. I’m a digital marketing podcaster. I’ve worked with people who know a lot, but they may not understand what they know is kind of valuable information from coaches.

They are a little ahead of that because they already know. And they’re likely already kind of providing that service. Now, why I like content is because of two reasons. One is a great way to build your brand, expand your reach, but it’s also a great way of helping more people all at once. Right. As a coach, as a service provider, you can only speak with so many people at a time, you know, there’s group coaching things to speak to the masses. You can do webinars, but for that personal touch, like, you can really only work with so many people at once. So, 1 way, you can work with thousands, millions of people all at once is with content.

So, when using content, you can take all the lessons, the stories, all these things, and turn it into videos, podcasts, ebooks, all these things. And what it does, it not only gets your story out, gets your information out, but also kind of prepares people to be able to work with you. Because sometimes people need the 1 on 1 class before they can get to the 2 on 1 class that you provide.

So. Here’s kind of how I tell people, uh, turn their knowledge into content and it’s kind of starting 1st with that knowledge piece. If you’re listening right now, there’s something called the zone of genius and I recommend everyone go look it up. It came from a book by an author, but there’s plenty of talks, speeches, articles, all about the zone of genius.

And that’s kind of finding the thing that you do the best, something that makes you unique, that helps you stand out. Even if you’re already offering a service, I actually recommend looking up the zone of genius and taking that framework, those principles and applying it to, um, what you’re already offering.

Now, once you understand what it is that you excel in, that provides a lot of value for other people, it’s like, okay, how do I kind of document this? And that’s that part, that’s really the key part of converting what you know in your mind into, um, content. So as you’re documenting what, you know, that could look like, of actually showing examples of it, uh, Writing a whole book, basically, basically writing it all out into something that someone could read and you take that and you see, okay, what can I turn this into?

And there’s so many different possibilities. Like, right now, we’re listening to a podcast where people are sharing their expertise, their zone of genius. That’s 1 of my personal favorite ways of turning your knowledge into content. But there’s also things as simple as eBooks. People take that for granted all the time.

Ebooks would be something you get out for free in exchange for an email address, or you could sell it on platforms like Gum Road through your own website. So many different places where ebooks can live. You could turn it into carousel posts that live on LinkedIn. Carousel posts as of right now, the recording, there’s still a really great way to get organic reach on that platform, but then carousel posts also work on Instagram. Now they work on tick tock as well. So there’s so many different ways. You could take what, you know, and put it into content that’s easily digestible for people. And when you do that, like I mentioned, selling it before, but it’s also a great lead magnet and a great way to get your name out for people who’ve never heard of you to start learning more about you so that you’re able to gain their trust and not in like a trick way or convincing them, but really to share who you really are with everyone and how you help people and why working with you can help them as well.

So it’s really just extending your reach. You know, you have your arms wide open for people to come and give you a nice little virtual hug with your content. So, um, the process of taking what, you know, and turning it into a content, it can be very, very simple, or it could be a longer process as part of this, uh kind of building your kind of personal brand. 

[00:06:14] Hendrik Baird: Yeah. So interesting. Walter says, uh, various formats for content creation, podcasts, ebook, social media posts. The question he asks is how can a podcast host or a coach determine which format best suits the expertise and the target audience? Um, and, and what factors should be considered when choosing the right format.

So format, and we’ve spoken about this in another episode, really important. And of course, your genre at the same time. And then I think Walter emphasized the importance of documenting your knowledge and your expertise. What strategies can, can people use to effectively document their expertise, especially if they are new to content creation.

If this is your first time doing a podcast, how do you tap into that which you know best and which you understand best and that you want to, um, communicate with your audience? How can you ensure that the content remains authentic and valuable to the audience while at the same time aligning it to your brand?

So yeah, interesting tips there. 

[00:07:14] Ethan Baird: Talking about workflow, Carey Green stresses the need for a systematic workflow in podcasting. So you’ve got to carefully plan, organize everything in your show from music, sound effects to show notes. So let’s take a listen to how Carey preps his individual episodes.

[00:07:28] Carey Green: Well, I think for a busy business person, they need to view this process, not as just a quick thing to put together so that you can get to the fun stuff of interviewing or podcasting. You need to view this as an investment of your time and energy into a quality product. Imagine if it was your software that you’re offering to your clients or your business services that you’re offering to your clients you’re going to develop that you’re going to work it through to understand what is the end product I want to produce and what it’s going to take step by step to produce that product. Your podcast is that product and so you need to think big picture, what type of episodes do I want to produce and what am I hoping the goal of, the outcome of those episodes will be and then kind of reverse engineer it? What, what is it going to take to produce that? Well, is there going to be music involved? Is there going to be ad revenue involved in the podcast?

Are there going to be sound effects? Are there going to be a need for show notes? Is there going to be a need for episodic artwork? You just break it all down. What are all the ingredients that go into the recipe that you’re trying to create? And then you systematically organize those in a sequential manner.

So first I’ll have to do this next. I’ll have to do this next. I’ll have to, and you’d lay it all out. And I encourage people to spend a day or two thinking this through. Don’t just spit ball it and try and write it on the back of a napkin or an envelope, you know, really get this down so that you don’t miss things that are vital to either the quality or the consistency of the show. And then there is no shame, and actually it’s, it’s the biggest, uh, boon to your podcast production, in having a bullet point list that you use as a checklist every time you record your episodes. And the example I’ve heard the most, that makes sense to me in this regard, is airline pilots, they have a checklist for the sake of safety that they go through every single time, no matter how many times they’ve flown the plane, no matter how much experience and hours they have, but in the cockpit, they go through that checklist because so much is riding on it.

You need to view your podcast the same way. I’m going to do this checklist of steps every single time, even though I may have it memorized, I’m not going to deviate from it because I want to make sure everything’s in place so that the quality and the outcome I’m looking for is actually going to be possible.

[00:09:51] Hendrik Baird: You’ve got to treat your podcast as a strategic investment, don’t you? Each episode must have a very specific outcome, and then you must systematically organize all your tasks so that you can achieve those goals. It’s almost like having a template of, you know, things you need to do on a weekly and a daily basis and a monthly basis to, to satisfy those goals.

It’s a bit like an airline pilot, you know, they don’t just get in the plane, start the engines and off they fly. They have a massive checklist. 

[00:10:22] Ethan Baird: Pre flight checklist. Right. 

[00:10:23] Hendrik Baird: And how many things you have to check in. And it’s the same thing in your podcast. You’ve got to, do you have a script? Do you know what each episode is going to be about?

Do you have a series plan for this season? For instance, we wanted to, to cover several questions, these six major questions, um, we wanted to answer through this series, and when we interviewed people, we structured those interviews around this, so it wasn’t just, oh, I’m going to interview somebody and hope for the best.

We came in with a very specific plan and a strategy, and the way we’re recording this as well, comes with a very specific, um, Uh, strategy for each episode that we want to get certain points across and therefore we scripted it in a certain way and you’re going to edit it in a certain way and add the sound effects and the music and all those other aspects.

And once we release it again, there’s going to be a very specific sequence of events; how we repurpose it, how we roll it out over social media, how we engage with our audience. So yeah, very important that your podcast production remains consistently the same quality every time, and that you can streamline your workflow.

[00:11:27] Ethan Baird: It’s as simple as making sure the mic’s recording sometimes.

[00:11:30] Hendrik Baird: And saving. 

[00:11:31] Ethan Baird: And saving. Another facet of planning out your podcast, especially if you’re doing a season approach, or if you are doing perhaps some kind of a rhythm with your weekly release, is having themes. Podcast themes are a way to kind of group multiple episodes together, have a storyline that doesn’t just end with one episode.

It goes beyond that. And Aphiwe is really strong on having themes for the episodes and then making sure that this is all backed up with research using a strategy called social media listening. We actually see what people are talking about and lining your content with that. So, uh, let’s take a listen to how Aphiwe plans their content.

[00:12:09] Aphiwe Mame: Hi, I am Aphiwe Mame. I am the producer and host for Digify Africa Unplugged Conversations. So when I’m done researching, I sort of do a very, because I have background in radio, and I’ve always been pedantic about how the conversation, and it might be a little bit too technical, um, close to the crazy side, but I, I often try to have the conversation before I have any conversation points or questions.

So I have the conversation. I lead the conversation in my mind. I sort of try and see if I were to bring this conversation just off camera, off mic, and just having this conversation with this person, what would that look like? I actually find my questions and my conversation points from doing that. So it’s almost like I’m rehearsing without a script.

Um, and I’m just going off of intuition and, and just going off of my general knowledge of that. That’s if I do have some kind of an idea. Um, of course I’ve done the research, but I mean, that’s, if I have an idea of how I want to sort of, um, frame the conversation. If there’s a specific thing that I’m trying to get out of the conversation, then of course it’s more technical.

So after the research, um, I didn’t go and look at, let’s say if I’m, I’m, you know, I’m, I’m working on a conversation that is looking at, I don’t know, let’s say the emerging, you know, online high schools in the continent or in South Africa, then, of course, I didn’t know, okay, UCT online high school, they just launched a high school that is a possible person to interview.

And then sort of trying to figure out what kind of information is that, is going to go along with that conversation. I then also go and look at what people are saying about the specific thing. Right? Um, and I think because now I’ve already done the technical research of what the industry is saying about it.

Now I want to hear what people are saying about it? Um, and how are they responding to it? Is it something that’s trusted? Is it something that’s not trusted? Because I think also the meat of your, um, content usually comes from what people are saying, right? Because I think that’s where you also get your relatability.

Um, if you’re able to bring in a soundbite, for instance, and I mean, I don’t know, maybe we’ll talk about this later on, just in terms of how to make your podcast more dynamic. But if you have a soundbite of a learner of a teacher talking about that, those are some of the things that I’m thinking about as I’m creating and as I’m sort of imagining the episode in my head.

So it’s, it’s a rehearsal, but not rehearsal. And obviously that process helps me sort of formulate the tone and the texture of the conversation. I’m able to feel it a little bit more and work around how I want to actually structure. So by the time I am now working on the conversation, On the, on the questions and the conversation points I’ve already created, um, uh, like almost like an atmosphere in my head around what that looks like.

I know it’s a bit abstract. It’s a very abstract answer. Usually it happens in my head before it goes on to paper. 

[00:15:09] Hendrik Baird: Kenny, on the other hand, has monthly themes and they certainly have some benefits when you organize your podcast episodes around monthly themes. And then of course it can contribute to a more cohesive and engaging listening experience.

So let’s listen to Kenny. 

[00:15:26] Kenny Archer: Yeah. So I’m Kenny Archer. We’ve got a podcast that we call Weekly Chat with Kenny. So we kind of, we, we work on a theme per month. Okay. In the beginning, I used to, um, sometimes Friday morning in the shower, I would come up with a question, um, type of thing. Uh, but now we’ve made it kind of a lot more structured.

So we focus on themes for the month. So for example, let’s say we were, we were looking at themes around sales. So the whole month would be questions around sales. So I would like a question would come up like, um, who’s your ideal client that you find sales are so easy for, and then people will share those win-win situations where they’ve had good closures on sales and they’ve managed to close it well.

And each person shares their own experience with it. And in that process, the others learn from them, too. So they’re not just getting one directional story. They’re getting stories from various different people. And then they walk away with what resonates the most with them. I think that’s what the whole thing is.

So everybody has the opportunity to answer that question. And once everybody’s gone, I’ll do a summary of what the final results are of everybody’s input. And then from there, each person then has a turn to actually share their one thing that they’ve taken away from that session. And that’s what’s powerful.

And if you go and listen to the intros of all the different podcasts, we take one person’s takeaway, and that becomes the intro for that episode of the podcast. And then the following week, we’ll do a question that’s related to the previous week. However, if you listen to it on its own, it’s strong enough on its own.

[00:17:29] Ethan Baird: I liked Sam’s approach to podcast production, which actually has a named framework, the APE framework. Let’s take a listen. 

[00:17:36] Sam Mitchell: Hello, everyone. My name is Sam Mitchell, and I run the podcast, Autism Rocks and Rolls. Well, my episodes usually involve the APE. So the A stands for autistic behaviors. I’ll think of a behavior that I struggle with and then just spit it all out.

And then the P stands for perspective, which stands for interview. So I’ve interviewed questions and an E stands for entertainment, which means sometimes I’ll go out of the box and compare something to autism. I compare an airplane to autism. I compare an American video game, which is Red Dead Redemption, to autism.

And out of everything, one of my certain interests at TimeSpan, Scooby Doo. I’ll write down notes, but then, like, sometimes I’ll elaborate and go off script, so I read the main point. Once I’m done reading that main point, all hands are off. I read the main idea, but as far as, like, the body of the paper, it’s all me.

[00:18:27] Hendrik Baird: So it seems to me, uh, Sam’s approach involves having a main point as a guide, but then allowing for spontaneity within the body of the episode. And I wonder how this balances structure and flexibility. How does this balance, you know, in the overall impact of the flow and engagement of the podcast, being prepared and also being open for whatever happens and going with the flow to some degree.

And I also like the way that he has diverse elements that he incorporates, personal anecdotes, interviews, creative comparisons. So there’s a multifaceted approach, a really interesting framework, Ethan. 

[00:19:05] Ethan Baird: I do like that the word entertainment is put in the framework as well. I think a lot of people miss that.

And just having entertainment being first and foremost, part of the strategy, is really, really crucial for me. Researching is crucial to a podcast, even if you know the topics through and through, an amount of research is going to go a long way, not just into the actual content, but in terms of what your audience wants from you as well.

So Aphiwe has this strategy called social media monitoring, which they do for their work. And they actually go quite in depth in terms of things like SEO and keywords to really make sure that the content that goes out on their podcast is exactly what the audience wants. 

[00:19:44] Aphiwe Mame: So it’s usually different things, right?

Um, one it’s research. I do a lot of research around what kind of conversations are happening. I mean, and that requires a lot of social media tracking and just digital, um, social listening in terms of what are really people saying about the specific, um, you know, aspect that your podcast might be about for us, because we’re looking at the digital economy.

So every time things like your chat GPT, um, when that was coming up, obviously that meant that we sort of needed to figure out what that looks like and what are the technicalities behind that? What is the validity behind that? And so that meant that we also needed to sort of find ways and interesting concepts that are going to speak to this very confusing time space and break it down and make it sure that your everyday person can understand what that means. And so for me, it was also very interesting on top of sort of looking at research. I also was very interested in the kind of people that I’m going to bring on. So I wanted to bring on, yes, thought leaders, but also thought leaders that speak to these issues in a way that is Relatable. Because I, if I’m gonna talk about chat, GPT, I need to understand what does that mean in my everyday life and not conceptually and not in a bigger conversation.

But when I’m alone at home and I’m trying to figure out what to do, um, with this chat GPT thing, and I’m exploring, I need to be a, I need, I wanted to create content that was going to connect to lived experiences more so as opposed to just consuming for awareness. So the research for me becomes very important when we’re creating concepts.

And of course I also tend to look at significant days, um, you know, a calendar and holidays. So obviously if it’s, let’s say, for instance, if it’s youth month, then I would sort of try and, and customize our subject matter with youth month. So digital, um, youth digital opportunities on the continent would be like a concept based off of the fact that we are celebrating youth month, um, in, in South Africa.

If we’re celebrating women’s month, we’d sort of look at, you know, let’s say, you know, opportunities for women of color within the digital economy and what a woman is doing and how are they changing the face of the digital economy on the continent and some of the opportunities there. So really, it is about again that social media listening and also just looking at what is relatable and I and part of the reason why it’s important to also look at those days that we celebrate as a country or as a continent, it also speaks to relatability, right? You also want to create not only just creating content to create awareness, but you also want people to be able to relate.

So, yes, I might want to know, but can I relate to it? Does it really affect me when you, when we’re talking about, for instance, if we’re talking about chat GPT to someone who lives in Nkanduli, um, is it really like, what does that mean for me? Because I’m worried about going to, you know, I don’t know, I’m herding some cattle, and is that really relevant in my space?

So it’s also trying to find out, um, you know, those, the sweet spot, essentially, where we say the content, um, yes, it’s looking at very technical issues, but we try to make it as relatable as possible. So it’s a lot of research. It’s a lot of finding relatable, um, parts of the conversation. And that’s how we come to create our themes and concepts.

[00:23:00] Hendrik Baird: Mariette’s also very big on researching and, um, she specifically researches her guests. 

[00:23:09] Mariette Snyman: Hi, I’m Marie Snyman. My podcast series is called Calm, Clear, and Helpful. So, to start with, when I approach them, I research them first, and then I approach them, and I don’t send them a form. I send them an email where I actually adapt to who I think they are.

And when I edit, the same thing. Uh, I try to get a sense of their personality and I, I try to apply that when I’m editing. So this is what makes the hours so long. And I’m still thinking about that because automation might help a lot. I hope at some stage to find someone who’s, who’s very good at editing and who might be able to do editing the way that I prefer, but, um, at this stage, I’m just going it alone. And Yeah. I only think about automation, not, not, uh, applying it. 

[00:24:11] Ethan Baird: Now this is something that’s so important and I think if you’re doing an interview podcast, this is something you really have to be doing. All of the best interviews that I’ve ever watched involve the guest at some point saying, how did you know that?

Or, Oh my word, what a great question. That is exactly what you want from a podcast interview. 

[00:24:29] Hendrik Baird: Yeah. And, I think Mariette highlighted, uh, the significance of adapting the way you communicate to the personality of each guest, the better you know them before the time, the better your communication can be.

[00:24:42] Ethan Baird: Talking about research. and the certain genres that require a ton of research. True crime is one of those that requires a gigantic amount of research and scripting. You can’t just go into that podcast and busk it all. It’s not going to work. So, uh, Nicole has a pretty meticulous process for doing this. 

[00:25:01] Nicole Engelbrecht: Hi, I’m Nicole Engelbrecht. I am the creator and host of the True Crime South Africa podcast.

Yeah, I think it’s quite, quite a bit different from some other podcasts. It’s a lot more research heavy. Um, so obviously I’m dealing with, um, you know, very deep material that needs to be factual and it’s very important to me that it’s factual. So the research part of it takes a long time. Um, you know, delving down into court records that I can find, books and that sort of thing, you know, really any proven factual record that I can find around the case, um, and then once I’ve got all of that, it’s a matter of putting it into a chronological order, both from the, for me, my sort of take on it is victim focused. So I like to see where I like to present a narrative in the script of and in the episode of the victim and where, how their life progressed as far back as I can go. And then also, you know, if it’s a murder case, um, the perpetrator. 

So once I’ve got that research together, it’s a matter of scripting it in such a way that we’re telling a story, but also we’re integrating those two narratives that we’ve got the victim first, and then the perpetrator comes in and then the point at which those two paths cross.

So that’s really, you know, I’ll spend, and time wise it differs because it depends on the case. Um, you know, once I start scripting, my research is generally already in chronological order um, in a separate doc, and then I’ll start scripting, you know, really exactly as I’m going to tell the story. And that is pretty important for me because I want to firstly be able to tell the story in a way that is easy on the listener’s ears because of the type of material we’re talking about.

Um, but also so that the story gets across, that really resonates with what the victim went through. That’s also important. Um, and you know, that, that’s, there will be occasions when I’m recording, when I get sort of halfway through a script and I realize, You know what? I’ve either left something out of the timeline here, or I need to go back and look for more information.

And sometimes that only happens when I’m actually recording. Um, you know, so that’s, that’s part of the process. And then, yes, certainly, um, you know, once that recording is actually done, even in the editing process, there’ll occasionally be moments where I’ll think, this actually does not sound right, or, this information doesn’t actually match up with what I had in the beginning. And, you know, I’ve got to change one or two things.

But I think for, you know, my genre, which is quite different from some others where maybe it’s more of a chat style. Um, sort of idea pod for me, scripting is very, very important and I know that’s not the same for all true crime podcast, but that’s really what I’ve built, you know, my, if you call it a brand, um, for the podcast around is storytelling that draws people in for the purpose of getting the victim’s story across.

So that part has been really important. 

[00:28:32] Hendrik Baird: Yeah, when you talk about true crime, you’ve got to be factually accurate. And Nicole focuses on the victim and not on the murderer himself or herself, you know? So she strikes that, that balance between in depth research, but at the same time, keeping that audience engagement.

And I think that’s what makes a really successful podcast. And you can see it in the numbers of, uh, Nicole’s listeners. And, of course, her scripting process also involves that narrative. You know, she tells a story. She’s really good at telling that story, and that story resonates with her, her listeners, at the same time conveying the victim’s story. So yeah, using storytelling in your podcast is highly, highly, highly recommended. 

[00:29:16] Ethan Baird: Now, of course, some people choose to go with no research as a strategy. They want to have more spontaneous moments like Lenka does. 

[00:29:24] Lenka Koppova: Hi, my name is Lenka and I’m a co-host of a podcast called Into Your Life Podcast.

It is a podcast about anything and everything that allows us to live happier, healthier, more fulfilling lives. So I don’t know how successful podcast guests or hosts do it. I can only talk about our experience and we are definitely more on the rough around the edges, not much of a preparation kind of people.

And it even comes to the point where we booked guests, either myself or my co host, and we do tell each other very basic information about a person. So when we’re actually coming to the conversation. We are coming without expectation almost, we haven’t done much of a research, especially the other person, the person inviting, maybe knows the person a little bit more, they know the host, they know the guest, they know the dynamic, they have a conversation with them before, they watch their content on social media, whatever it is, the reason that we decide to invite someone.

But the other person, the other co host, we usually do very little preparation, at least from my end, where I get a note from my co host being like, Oh, we have, you know, John, the guy who walks or we get Carrie, the kayak lady. And I’m like, sure, we’ll see what’s going to happen. And then we go with a flow and it really forces us again, to be present in the moment, not to have a specific agenda and really see what comes out.

And so far, It’s been working out really nicely for us, and we have so many surprise moments where even the guest is shocked by what is coming, what they’re willing to share with us. They did not plan to often share their trauma stories, their life stories with us, they’ve never talked about it publicly.

But there is something about this raw and in the moment and genuinely interesting kind of approach that we see lots of our guests opening up. 

[00:31:26] Hendrik Baird: Yeah, there’s some benefits to just going in cold, I suppose. And we’ve done it before with our Meet My Business podcast, you just pitch up. Eventually we started doing pre interviews, we at least got to know the person, get to kind of plan what it’s, uh, what it’s about, but I like Linka’s sort of spontaneous approach, minimal, uh, preparation.

There are certain advantages, but there’s also some limitations. You know, maybe there’s big points that you missed. You didn’t know this person at all and knew that they wrote a book or did something amazing and climbed Mount Everest or whatever it is. So you’ve got to strike a balance between how much you prepare and how much spontaneity you allow.

[00:32:06] Ethan Baird: Picking topics is also quite a difficult one. And for Nicole, she has to pick specific cases, so be very curious to find out how she actually decides which ones to go with. 

[00:32:16] Nicole Engelbrecht: So I cover both solved and unsolved cases. Um, solved cases are far easier to cover because all of the information is there and there’s already a resolution to it. So you don’t need to worry about, um, either damaging the case or upsetting anyone. So unsolved cases, I will pick cases that have sufficient information to make up a at least 40 minute episode and those are generally the cases I do on the solved side. And then on the unsolved side it’ll be cases where I’ve either had the family reach out to me and ask me to cover it. Um, and then also on top of that, there’s criteria that I check off for myself in terms of this case, uh, currently being investigated. So is it an active investigation, in which case I usually advise the family to wait. Because, you know, very often, even though it looks like the police are doing nothing, I’ve learned that there’s a lot going on in the background that maybe even the family don’t even know about, you know, so that’s one of the criteria for me on the unsolved ones. Um, and really, you know, you know, if I’ve had an investigative officer or a private investigator, let me know that, you know, we’re good to go on, getting awareness for this case, that would be helpful and beneficial to the case, then it’s a tick mark for me, and I’ll go ahead with it.

[00:33:49] Ethan Baird: One part of the pre production process that people don’t always speak about is actually getting the guests. So here’s a clip of Natalie discussing the challenges and advantages of arranging the guests for their podcast. 

[00:34:00] Natalie King: My name is Natalie and I’m the Introverts Coach. We’ve been fairly lucky, as we’ve reached out to friends first, I guess, you know, people we knew quite well in our circles, in our business circle.

And they’ve been very willing to come onto a, essentially an unknown podcast. We really appreciated that. So we picked people we knew well, who would say yes to us because they know us and, and that’s, that’s been really nice. And we are now getting better known by running the podcast so that we can start to get more acquaintances.

We can start to reach out to people we don’t necessarily have regular contact with, but we are most probably in their circle some way or other, uh, and that, that can be quite a bit of a challenge because it’s, you know, do they want to come on to a newish podcast, but then again, we’ve sort of hit the, I guess, the expert.

Once you hit 30 episodes, you almost become part of the 1 percent of podcasters. And we’ve now in our late sixties or going into our 70th, 70th episode. So we are becoming a sort of a known entity. One of the challenges that we have had with guests is because it’s very organic, we very much have done this organically.

That was the, the goal of this was to not put money in for marketing or anything, just do this very much organically by asking guests to promote the episode. And we’ve had some fantastic episodes that have just shot out there because they have very much promoted it, shared it. And then we’ve got, uh, great guests with a fantastic topic, but they don’t share their own episode.

And that’s been a little bit of a challenge because yes, we want it to get out there, but we also want them to get out there. We also want their information out there. And of course, if they share their own episode, it shines a light on them as well. So it’s, it’s, it’s getting guests to understand that or to, to share the episode.

So that’s been the challenge in growing the podcast is having guests help us to grow it. Another challenge that we have had is when WiFi goes down and they’ve been hot spotting it off their mobile phones and the sound has been appalling or just going in and out and editing that is a nightmare because you, you need to get bits and it’s not always a whole sentence that is worth saving. So you, you cut out a lot of useful information. So that’s again, you learn as you do. So now we very much ask that guests actually have decent wifi. You don’t have to have microphones or anything fancy, but have decent wifi that’s not going to be cutting in and out as, as, as you’re recording. Um, because it’s just it’s not nice to listen to, and we lose so much information that way. So that has been one of the issues with guests. 

But too many ums and ahs can be quite distracting. So I’ll take some out and some I’ll leave in if they seem to fit. And then it’s, so far we’ve been fairly lucky with guests as they know their topics and they wanted to talk. We haven’t had to guide them or ask too many questions, but sometimes it has been reining them in. It’s like, yeah. You know, stop, stop, stop, you know, I love what you’re saying, but take a breath.

 Those are sort of the challenges that we get, but they are human challenges, I guess. And, but the biggest one is, not all guests will promote their own episodes and that is, it’s sad for them and us, you know, we want, we want to spread the podcast out into the big wide world. 

[00:38:27] Hendrik Baird: Now, here’s an interesting question. Do you give your guests the question before the time, or do you just ask them? Lenka certainly has an opinion. 

[00:38:36] Lenka Koppova: Well, I think it depends on the type of a podcast, depends on your ability as a host, as a facilitator, to deal with the unexpected, to know and trust yourself that you can come up with interesting questions as you go and also about the guests, to know that they will be okay with more impromptu type of conversation, to have a conversation even before the recording when you’re booking,, when you’re trying to assess whether or not the person is going to be the right fit to figure out if they are okay with going with the flow or if they would prefer to have set questions or have set topics and themes. I’m personally more the go-with-the-flow kind of a person. I prefer both angles of going with the flow in conversations as a guest and in our podcast, definitely as a host, it’s more about seeing what comes up in the moment rather than trying to arrange and organize everything in advance.

[00:39:39] Ethan Baird: I personally think you shouldn’t ever give a guest the questions. 

[00:39:43] Hendrik Baird: I think you should give them questions and then don’t ask them. Yeah. 

[00:39:47] Ethan Baird: I meant, what I like doing is giving them a vague understanding of what We’re going to talk about, 

[00:39:52] Hendrik Baird: yeah, what are the topics, what are the broad things we’ll talk about? 

[00:39:55] Ethan Baird: Yeah. I’m going to ask you about your history. I’m going to ask you, we’re going to discuss this kind of thing. And I think the pre-talk strategy helps a lot where you can figure out what to talk about with them perhaps as well before you even record. We did this when we were working at the online radio station. We’ve done this before, given a guest a list of questions, nine times out of 10, what they do is they come and they read the answers that they have prepared. And it is the most boring thing in the whole world. So yeah, I would say never give the guests the questions. Ask them if there’s anything you want them to ask specifically, perhaps, but beyond that, let it be a bit more spontaneous. 

[00:40:30] Hendrik Baird: Next we get to scripting and, uh, most people don’t script podcasts, you know, I think it’s true crime, certainly like Nicole, very, very, very scripted, heavily scripted, uh, word for word.

Other people like us, we’re using bullet points, we’re using talking points and so on. Uh, so it’s sort of half scripted. A lot of people don’t use it. I was interested if people use templates. Um, when we do our Podmaster Startup program with our clients, we, uh, we give them some templates and say, you know, these are some of the ways you can script.

So I asked Carey about using templates. 

[00:41:05] Carey Green: I template everything I have, uh, within my software that I use for my project management, which is called Notion. I have templates built out for my individual podcast episodes, and so every one of them has the sections within each episode already blank preformatted.

So I just fill in the content. Every one of them has a section where I can pull in assets that I’m going to be using in that episode and I plan all this ahead of time so that when I get to the episode and I’m ready to record, I can just go through the list because it’s already alright there. Um, I don’t have to retype it every time. I don’t have to read, invent the wheel. So to speak, I just use those templates over and over and over. I even do this within my audio recording software and when it comes to editing, I’ve got a template laid out already with my intro music and my outro music and any sound effects. And if there’s a different outro that rotates throughout my episodes. I have all those in the same project so that I can just pull in the one that I need each time and rotate through them. Uh, templates are huge. They’re a huge time saver. 

[00:42:10] Hendrik Baird: When it comes to narrative podcasts, you certainly need a script. Let’s talk to Paige. 

[00:42:16] Paige Muller: Hi everybody. I am Paige Muller and I am a podcast manager at the Founders Factory.

I also do a lot of freelance podcasting work. Yeah, so I mean, again, it very much depends on the podcast you’re putting together. You know, if you are doing a talking heads podcast, one where everyone’s sitting in a room or just chatting, it’s very important to know and know very clearly what your topic is.

Before you go anywhere, what is the feel of this show? And that is good enough for finding your guests and starting off your conversation and knowing where you’re at in each conversation. And that’s kind of fine, you know, but when you’re doing something this nuanced with this much research, um, the story can become very verbose and the second it becomes out of control and verbose like that, you’re going to lose your audience.

So when you’re really looking to tell a very nuanced story, um, very historically based story or, you know, linked to current events, that’s, that’s really a narrative more than anything else. If it’s a narrative based story, I would really recommend putting in the additional time to make sure that you know where your script is, where it’s going to end, the end of that episode, and where it’s going to kick off with the next episode.

Particularly, like I said, when it’s these heavily narrative based Chat shows, yeah, a little bit different, but I think if you’re going to do an investigative podcast, you really do need to know at least what question the next episode is going to answer. So that you’re not just waffling at your audience. No one likes to listen to waffles. 

[00:43:47] Ethan Baird: I mean, what else is there to say? It’s impossible to make one of these podcasts without a script, unless you’re doing improv, which is its own genre entirely, much like the audio drama that we’re busy producing. That one’s got an extensive script. 

[00:43:58] Hendrik Baird: Yeah, that is a word for word script.

They’re 40 scenes, 17, uh, actors. It’s a massive thing. And I’m on draft 10 of that script now, it’s taken me three months to write that script and we’re still not 100 percent there. And when we get to the studio, we’ll probably make little tweaks and changes in the rehearsal process and on recording day. So, uh, yeah, for that sort of thing, you, you certainly need a script like you need for a play.

To summarize Ethan, there’s a wide variety of ways that you can script. Um, you could go in blind, you can go in raw and, uh, just busk through it if you really want. But you probably get lost somewhere along the way and not have the greatest podcast. Could be interesting. Could be boring. Who knows?

Could be a hit and miss affair. You could over script a podcast as well where it sounds read and, you know, it sounds boring. I’ve listened to podcasts where people just, they have no skill in reading a text and therefore it’s just like, stop reading, start talking to me, you know? But I think, the main points I’m taking away today is you need to be prepared, no matter which genre you’re using, which style you in preparation is all for your overall workflow process, so you’ve got to research your guests, you’ve got to script your episodes, structure, your content, take time to edit.

We’ve not even spoken about editing today, just in terms of preparing that, you know. A template, certainly very useful. I find the balance between being very prepared and remaining flexible and allowing for those magical moments to happen. 

[00:45:29] Ethan Baird: Yeah. And this even comes down to things like audience engagement and promotion.

And what I mean by that is if you know what you’re going to do, if you have a template for each episode, which perhaps even includes what the marketing is going to look like, what I have to send to a guest, I have a template after the episode to say, Hey. Once the episode is done, please share it. All of those things can be built into your workflow. So you’re just not thinking in the middle of the night, Oh, I forgot, I have to make a post. 

[00:45:54] Hendrik Baird: So what we’re talking about today really is about the show prep. Now it’s about how to prep the whole thing before you even get to the recording part of it. And as you say, you’ve got to also think of the end result in your preparation so that you can carry it through the editing and the posting and the promotional part of it.

But for me, the most important thing is to skip the ads, tell the story. Uh, storytelling, whether it’s an interview, whether it’s a narrative driven podcast, doesn’t really matter. You’ve got to craft compelling stories. You’ve got to maintain a chronological order and you’ve got to emphasize the human aspect of stories.

These are key elements in creating a really impactful podcast and keep learning. Don’t just go, Oh, once and I failed and I’ll never do again, use that as a stepping stone and don’t go, Oh, I know everything. No, it’s continuous improvement. All of our guests today have emphasized the importance of continuous learning and improving.

So once you’ve done an episode, listen back to it, reflect on it, refine it, adapt it, listen to your audience as they give you feedback and let your podcast evolve and success will come over time. And if you want to.

[00:47:11] Ethan Baird: Skip that, please.

[00:47:12] Hendrik Baird: I’ll get to the story. Well, a friend of mine, uh, wanted to start a podcast.

Her name is Nikki and she didn’t know what to do. So what she did is she came to me and she said, Hendrik, will you and Ethan please come and help me? I want to start a podcast. I’m a death doula. I help people through the grieving and the death process. And we said, yes, come and join our program. And she did.

And, uh, Nikki is still in the process and she’s learning a lot and she’s taking it at her own speed. And soon and very soon, Nikki will come back with a beautiful, very heartfelt, sensitive topic. You know, death is not an easy thing to talk about. And, uh, we’re helping and guiding her. So that’s the story of Nikki using the Podmaster Startup Program, which you can read about on our website, Baird.Media.